E-mail for the web site.

 
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Firefly
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 8:02 pm    Post subject: E-mail for the web site. Reply with quote

E-mail for the web site.

I know search, the web site. I have, and that is my problem. I am so confused and at the same time removing hair and a great amount. So confused I am.

I am so surprised there isn't a tutorial, on setting up a e-mail server program that may be free, and work well with a Abyss.

I have even tried reconfiguring PHP 5, in order to send. Now for the programs I have installed that are Php, based. I've even tried installing a e-mail server as well, so confused I is.

Please, someone help me through my cloud. Of confusion.

Wait too much information with little detail. Confusing, completely.
Usually most web sites have a contact form and requires permissions to send by php5, or some other program.

Please help.
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AbyssUnderground
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hMailServer is free and easy to set up.
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Firefly
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi AbyssUnderground
I have downloaded hMailServer, that is where I am confused. Don't know what, or why I did. I followed the QuickStart manual, and I did not really understand what I was doing. I don't know even if it is working.

I even tried inside the PHP 5, tried setting up inside, php.ini the mail server, that information I found here in the forums, and I do not know if that information, was correct. However I have form on my web site, when I use it I only receive, error.

Color me red and ball head.

I do Thank you , for replying to my request.
May I and ask for possibly a tutorial, it would probably in the immensely helpful to understand what is going on. Or it would give a base, in which to be able to work out problems. Please.
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AbyssUnderground
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Install hMailServer.
2. Set up domains you will be using and accounts.
3. Set up MX records in your DNS settings of the domain (may take up to 48 hours to take effect)
4. Send test e-mails to the address and use a client to view them (like outlook)
5. Send e-mails out to other addresses and see if they get them (Requires SMTP auth to send mail, set that up in your clients settings).

Notes:
- Your username will be "accountname@domain.com" not just "accountname".
- Some ISP's block you using your own mail server.
- Not all mail may get sent or received properly since a lot of ISP's IP's are black listed on e-mail servers as spam servers (I have this issue).
- You will not receive mail when your server is down (obviously) and some servers stop trying to send mail to your server after a short time of being unavailable.

I hope you can follow this.
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Firefly
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you! And make a guess, my Internet provider is having problems, e-mail server problems.

You have mentioned I believe information I did not know or understand. I wished I could find some software that would integrate with my Internet provider, e-mail server. That would make life so much easier. That way the forums would be able to reply, to post. Like this one here.

Thanks again.
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pkSML
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Joined: 29 May 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're looking for webmail, you could try SquirrelMail. (Search for it).

It uses an IMAP connection, so your mail server software must have an IMAP server. I use Mercury/32 (Download - Homepage) for my mail server and it supports IMAP.

If you have a router, forward ports 25 (SMTP), 110 (POP3), and 143 (IMAP) to your server.

Depending on your ISP, they might block port 25. This is a pain, but a workaround for $20/yr. is at http://www.no-ip.com/services/managed_mail/outbound_port_25_unblock.html.
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AbyssUnderground
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hMailServer supports IMAP.
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Firefly
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi AbyssUnderground.

This may help you as well with the problem you are having with your mail server.

http://www.dnsreport.com/

Take a look at this, SPF, it may solve your problem. You may be having.

http://www.openspf.org/

However it's all over my head.

:?
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AbyssUnderground
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive already tried doing those. Its either talking rubbish on the site or doesnt let me do it, so I gave up and I just live with it.
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hubson
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Joined: 10 May 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

try ArGoSoft Mail Server it is free and alot easier to set up
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AbyssUnderground
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hubson wrote:
try ArGoSoft Mail Server it is free and alot easier to set up


Actually you'll find hMailServer is one of the easiest servers to set up also. There isnt really anywhere you can go wrong with it.
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ccs
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Generally speaking, most "problems" are not the installation but a lack of understanding the technology. hMailserver, Argo, Ability, MDaemon, and almost all others will work pretty much "right out of the box". But hosting your own email is not something the 'average guy' should do. There are lots of routing and security issues involved, not to mention the previously stated fact that most ISP want to force you through their servers (never did understand that, but if if makes them feel good :D)

If all you want is a simple mail form on a web page, you don't need your own server for that. The form simply needs a valid, working address to send the form data to. Your existing one should work fine.

If you really want/need to run your own server (a very rewarding thing to do if your learn how), the best thing is to first read up on how to do it. That kind of information really isn't going to be found in a web server product forum. Most of the email server packages have decent documentation and, of course, their own forums for help.

The first thing you need is a static IP address (you may already have this if you're hosting your own web site). I highly discourage using a dynamic DNS service for email, you really need a static address or your just asking for tons of problems.

Then you need a domain name and the ability to create an MX record in the DNS for that domain to point to your static IP address. Most registrars will have tools for creating the MX records. You need to understand this part of the equation too. Many email related problems are do to mis-configured DNS entries.

Once you have an IP, domain name, and properly configured DNS records, a 'default' installation of just about any email server software will work with little or no fuss.

The education to pull this off though, is not a 'quick-start' guild, or a couple of posts on this or any other forum. You need to learn about DNS and specifically MX records, and the various mail protocols (POP, SMTP, IMAP, etc). A good idea of IP routing goes a long way too.
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AbyssUnderground
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While you may discourage using a dynamic dns for e-mail, I use one quite happily since the point of dynamic dns is to update the IP, nothing more. When linked in with my domain, it doesnt matter what the IP is, the domain never changes.
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madman1337
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

but what about the very short downtimes that happen when the ip address changes and the dns takes a few seconds to update? Wouldn't you end up missing a few emails if the people are too lazy to resend it after it comes back with an error? I have this problem on my ventrilo server...everyone will randomly time out every other day or so, and then will reconnect after a minuite, all because of the dns updating.
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AbyssUnderground
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

madman1337 wrote:
but what about the very short downtimes that happen when the ip address changes and the dns takes a few seconds to update? Wouldn't you end up missing a few emails if the people are too lazy to resend it after it comes back with an error? I have this problem on my ventrilo server...everyone will randomly time out every other day or so, and then will reconnect after a minuite, all because of the dns updating.


No, because e-mail servers often hold the mail and keep retrying for "x" period set by its administrator. Mine keeps retrying for 4 days, every 15 mins.
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ccs
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I probably should have qualified my comment.

DDNS is fine for non-commercial use. Most of the DDNS services do a very good job, and as you pointed out, the SMTP protocol does suggest a retry formula of 3 days. (Granted, most ISPs limit it to 24 hours, but nonetheless, more than enough to compensate for IP changes).

However, for commercial use, and serious email, DDNS simply won't do. Its not as much about the switching as it is the ancillary problems.

The main reason people use DHCP for their public address is they have a consumer grade ISP package. The ISPs generally do not want (or allow via contract) their customer's to run server services. You can get around this, but now you're fighting your own ISP as well.

The bigger problem though, is SPAM protection. The biggest headache for email administration is SPAM (followed by viruses now!). It takes so much administration time that the costs for hosting email have skyrocketed. Therefore, many of the anti-spam products are now being developed with some levels of automation, auto-blacklisting. When a server logs your SMTP server using multiple IP addresses, you get flagged as a SPAMMER and will get blacklisted. This is happening with increasing frequency. You may not worry about it now, but as soon as enough ISPs (Yahoo, GMail, etc) blacklist you, you'll soon find that you can't send or receive email from anyone! Many of these blacklists are being shared now too. And, since the IP address is not yours, but your ISPs, and they suddenly find that they can no longer send/receive email because their IP range is blacklisted, guess who they'll come after?

If the blacklists don't get you first, you also have the problem with reverse pointer records. In order to better authenticate that an email server is who it claims to be, a number of checks are made on the incoming IP address. One very common check is the reverse pointer. Normally, you look up a domain's IP address based on their name. If its a legitimate server, you should be able to get its name from its IP address as well. The reverse pointers for DDNS records will not return your server's name. This alone may not black-list you, but some services, such as AOL will refuse to accept email from you if your IP is dynamic. This is going to become more and more common as IPv6 becomes more standard. Why?

With IPv6, if you're legit, you won't need dynamic addressing unless (a) your ISP still doesn't want you doing servers or (b) you are trying hard to hide who you really are. IPv6 will have enough address space that every man, woman, and child on the planet can have their own IP address....and then some! Therefore, if you're using a DDNS service with a v6 address, the question would be "why"? A legitimate email server should have no reason to hide its identity so its logical to assume its a SPAM host.

So with limited resources, it makes good business sense to focus efforts on detecting SPAMers based on things that will continue to be issues well into the future. The single biggest method is, and will continue to be, changing IP addresses. Therefore, sooner or later (sooner I'm betting on), you'll find that the bulk of the Internet email servers won't talk to you if you have a dynamic IP address, and if they won't talk, you really have a problem with email :)
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Firefly
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My problem was, I guess understanding, all this information, you guys are placing on the board.

I purchased a static IP #. and I have a domain name it is pointed at IP #.
I just wanted to be able to send notifications from my bulletin board, to my members.
The static IP was purchased, from the same as I have Web connection, and e-mail, presently from.
Contacted technical support and asked them about blocking port 25, they said they did not.

Contacted abyss support, and receive the information necessary to make the board work without a e-mail server.

This may my life less complicated.
So thank you for all the information hopefully everything for me will continue working without any problem.

I guess the way, I am now beginning to understand is, are you being honest, or trying to be kind of crooked.
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ccs
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Joined: 02 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I guess the way, I am now beginning to understand is, are you being honest, or trying to be kind of crooked.


Not really sure what you mean by this. My comments are only posted to help you gain an understanding of what's involved with hosting a full email server. There is no profit to me to be crooked.

I'm glad to hear you solved your problem. Like most things, there can be multiple ways to fix a problem.
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Firefly
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi CCS

The way you explained, that is what came into my mind, people looking for the way around the system. Nothing against you, or anyone here.

Thank you for your description. Once again a little too much information which confuses me to know when.
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hansmiv
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Joined: 01 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CCS, Thank you for your clear thoughts and comments about running a email server.

About a month ago I set up my own servers, including the Abyss webserver, starting with X1 but after a few weeks upgrading to X2. The only reason for this was being curious about how things work. I learned a bunch in the meantime.
Another issue was setting up an email server. I have chosen the Mailtraq server, having the best reviews. Indeed, as you mentioned, the most tricky thing is the security of the system, due to the open ports and the risk of becoming an relay for others. Once being put on a blacklist you surely have a big problem, which I hope I can prevent. I bounce email for unknown addressees, I set up my rerouting filters and as far as I can see everything works reasonably well. The only thing is that automatic email forwarding, i.e. sending a copy to an addressee outside my domain, is blocked now. But I consider this as a proof that all is setup well. Besides I tried out a lot of sites on the internet which do several tests on the vulnerability of your system.

All in all, when you don't try things out and don't dare to set things up and to go life on the internet, you will never get the knowledge and experience about how things work.

I just want to let you know that your comprehensive reply helps me a lot to get better knowledge about how things work and what I am doing and what I can do to raise the level of security of my system.
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ccs
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

All in all, when you don't try things out and don't dare to set things up and to go life on the Internet, you will never get the knowledge and experience about how things work.

I couldn't agree more. The best teacher is experience.

Quote:

I have chosen the Mailtraq server, having the best reviews....

That's one I haven't looked real closely at. Having about 2500 commercial boxes I support, the cost of the software is a big consideration for me (obviously the software has to be commercial quality too!). While Mailtraq does have a lot to offer, if you're not too far into it yet, you might also look at hMailServer. I'm still in the testing phase with this, but the latest release looks very, very good and its open source!

Quote:

I just want to let you know that your comprehensive reply helps me a lot to get better knowledge about how things work and what I am doing and what I can do to raise the level of security of my system.

Wow. I'm humbled. Thank you for the kind words.

One of the greatest aspects of the Internet, IMO, is the broad reaching sharing of knowledge between people who will likely never meet in person. Such a bridge might well be the beginning of a more peaceful world as any pretense or preconceived notions about one another are greatly diminished in this medium.[/quote]
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phirez
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Joined: 22 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone know of a free public imap and smtp hoster?

I want to test a webmail client i've been building


Last edited by phirez on Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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pkSML
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pkSML wrote:
It uses an IMAP connection, so your mail server software must have an IMAP server. I use Mercury/32 (Download - Homepage) for my mail server and it supports IMAP.


Mercury/32 is also a POP and SMTP server.
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Gannyaa
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:02 am    Post subject: ArgoSoft Mail Server Reply with quote

I have set up Abyss Web Server X1 about 3 months ago. And I love it.... Can't say enough.

But I had to include an email server (Which abyss is not) So Looking here I found all the different kinds of email servers.

ArgoSoft I choose because it is compatible with win98 which hmailserver is not, and same with squirrel.

If you're not having a problem with port 25 being blocked then what's the problem. Have you even tried yet to install an email server alongside your web server?
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loloyd
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I may add, albeit late, I have to agree with ccs here. Not to be rude but I would like to discourage newbies from running SMTPs off their own servers, unless their mailserver packages are configured secure BY DEFAULT.

I used to use ArgoSoft and it came secure by default. The moment I attempted to open a relay system supposedly for my own purposes, I was surprised to find SPAMMERS quickly taking advantage of the situation so I had to shut it down and figure out another way to implement mailserving off my dynamic IP websites. I never actually experienced how much port scanning SPAMMERS and VIRUSES are plaguing the net but that incident really enlightened me.

My sentiment is that setting up mail servers should be left to those with due experience unless you want to be party to a burgeoning Internet problem. But if you really want to implement one and you're a newbie, it would be your responsibility to brush yourself up with the technology and its safety mechanisms - this takes at least a month of intensive research if you start from scratch, unless you're a genius or a networking geek. OR, use the SECURE BY DEFAULT settings - which may hinder your use and purposes.

Again, I would like to reiterate that I did not intend to be rude. Sometimes, safety, security and stability takes due precedence over unchecked valor.
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Gannyaa
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 7:14 pm    Post subject: Setting an email server shouldn't be all that hard Reply with quote

Setting an email server doesn't have to be all that hard.

I have found that with the ArgoSoft support Forum (which is very much like this one in terms of good reliable answers in a meaning time)

ArgoSoft recommends a very useful website tool to secure your DNS

I've mentioned it in another thread. After you check your dns report, you can eliminate via trial and error, and the very very helpful suggestions on how to fix the problem right in the DNS report!

Like before Abyss we all had to suffer Apache, and many newbie's were discouraged to host their own website on their own server and opted for Hosting companies....

Naw...
Enable the newbie dude.
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