90kbps to £45 million

 
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senshi
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Joined: 05 Nov 2003
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Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 2:48 pm    Post subject: 90kbps to £45 million Reply with quote

Anyone on NTL?

Can I ask a question... is it me or has the new network upgrades in service running slower in upstream bandwidth? I use to get upto 60KB/s on good uploading connections but no hardly see it get above 21KB/s and 27KB/s if IM lucky.

I ran a network too that reported I had 220kbps upstream bandwidth, given I use to get anything upto 480kbps, average, this FREE download bandwidth they have given us has had to come from somewhere and I noticed this drop after the upgrades.

Why 90kbps to £45 million? Well the overall reduction in my bandwidth out of my PC would equate to about 13pence a day or about £45 a year, given theirs over 1 million customers on my ISP's network, thats a cool £45 million from nothing, my net bill should be reduced to £21.25 a month because the ISP has taken away part of my bandwidth, the differencs is 90kbps in their favour, this means that they pay less in network traffic leaving the NTL network, conserving bandwidth and not passing on the benefits, it looks good but the deal means that IM worse off and IM sure that its fraud to do something like that.

Anyone else notice that the upload bandwidths have dropped? I know that NTL officially quote that the upload limits are 128kbps but given I have tested many time over many years all of a sudden find that the connection I have has a diminished capacity.

I ask this because IM trying to find out if this is regional or national, a friend on the same network but different LAN, hes on mapperly top, IM on st anns valley, two different network loops, same issue. Has NTL manipulated the bandwidths here as a local test, or a local network problem, I cant say for sure because I only noticed the differenc shortly after they upgraded.

Your input is appreciated, IM wanting to check out other peoples connections, if you get a online test, you fav on-line test will do, I would be intrwested to see the results.


PLEASE REMEMBER, THIS IS ABOUT --- UP-STREAM traffick and not downloading.....I want to make that very clear.
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Foxified
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Joined: 13 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 3:40 pm    Post subject: Re: 90kbps to £45 million Reply with quote

senshi wrote:
Anyone on NTL?

Can I ask a question... is it me or has the new network upgrades in service running slower in upstream bandwidth? I use to get upto 60KB/s on good uploading connections but no hardly see it get above 21KB/s and 27KB/s if IM lucky.

I ran a network too that reported I had 220kbps upstream bandwidth, given I use to get anything upto 480kbps, average, this FREE download bandwidth they have given us has had to come from somewhere and I noticed this drop after the upgrades.

Why 90kbps to £45 million? Well the overall reduction in my bandwidth out of my PC would equate to about 13pence a day or about £45 a year, given theirs over 1 million customers on my ISP's network, thats a cool £45 million from nothing, my net bill should be reduced to £21.25 a month because the ISP has taken away part of my bandwidth, the differencs is 90kbps in their favour, this means that they pay less in network traffic leaving the NTL network, conserving bandwidth and not passing on the benefits, it looks good but the deal means that IM worse off and IM sure that its fraud to do something like that.

Anyone else notice that the upload bandwidths have dropped? I know that NTL officially quote that the upload limits are 128kbps but given I have tested many time over many years all of a sudden find that the connection I have has a diminished capacity.

I ask this because IM trying to find out if this is regional or national, a friend on the same network but different LAN, hes on mapperly top, IM on st anns valley, two different network loops, same issue. Has NTL manipulated the bandwidths here as a local test, or a local network problem, I cant say for sure because I only noticed the differenc shortly after they upgraded.

Your input is appreciated, IM wanting to check out other peoples connections, if you get a online test, you fav on-line test will do, I would be intrwested to see the results.


PLEASE REMEMBER, THIS IS ABOUT --- UP-STREAM traffick and not downloading.....I want to make that very clear.


is this cable? dsl?
are you sure its not a modem problem (turnning it off for 2mins, and then turnin back on) , sync connection good?


I get 766kbps upload .

perhaps, try this.
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/ukbb
Uk fast internet forum help thingie :/
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senshi
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Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cable, 100% pukka connex, I have been testing and even a friend on the same network but different lan loop to mine is experiencing a drop off in outbound traffic.

I have asked in anouther forum but the people who use it seem to be blinded by the truth, cant see beyond the modem connection , if you follow. cant see the Wood for the trees syndrome.

This like I said has happend since the network upgrades where NTL gave an extra 150k bandwidth on downstream traffic. What alerted me to the difference was a friend who ftp's off me from time to time, she has a 300k servive, regular uploads/downloads which ever way you want to look at it were double the last couple of uploads so the speed has dropped since the upgrades.

Has anyone else experienced this? if so what part of the country and when did you find out.

90kbps dont sound allot, it soon adds up to £45 a year that IM loosing out on.

1,000,000 NTL customers x £45 = lots of dividends for the share holders.

get the picture, not looking good, the more intel I can get, the more amunition I have to goto the regulating body with my query/findings.

This is serious, I want to kick their asses because its not on, I eoither want the 90kbps or £45 off my bill.
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senshi
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Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well here are a number of independent sites dotted around the globe, USA, Austraila,Holland,UK all give similar results, I know I ran the tests at peak times but even IM surprised at how slow the service upsteream is and IM not uploading anything.....

Quote:

1st test

2004-09-22 13:17:34 EST: 346 / 34
Your download speed : 354595 bps, or 346 kbps.
A 43.2 KB/sec transfer rate.
Your upload speed : 35505 bps, or 34 kbps.

2nd test with another tester
2004-09-22 13:20:15 EST: 528 / 28
Your download speed : 540688 bps, or 528 kbps.
A 66 KB/sec transfer rate.
Your upload speed : 29027 bps, or 28 kbps.

Another test showed this
Download
Download van een bestand (128KB ~ 1MB afhankelijk van uw verbinding) vanaf een server in Nederland Klaar 47.9 KByte/sec
(=383 kbps)
Upload
Upload van gegenereerde gegevens naar een server in Nederland om de upload snelheid te bepalen Klaar 3.6 KByte/sec
(=29 kbps)
Connection
Veelvuldig maken van een connectie naar een server in Nederland. Klaar 162.0 Conn/min
Ping test Nederland
Uitvoeren van een aantal grote pings vanuit Nederland naar uw computer (N.B. Uw evt. firewall moet deze pings dus wel accepteren! De test is ook niet mogelijk als u via een proxy server de site gebruikt) Klaar 12.0 ms


This one said...
Direction
Actual Speed
True Speed (estimated)

Downstream 563 Kbps (70.4 KB/sec) 608 Kbps (inc. overheads)
Upstream 30 Kbps (3.8 KB/sec) 32 Kbps (inc. overheads)


Its not looking too good is it considering I have 600k enhanced to 750k, I would ecpect at least 60% throughput on downloads but like I said, its peak times, I will do a comparison test in the early hours when the servers are quieter.
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Foxified
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Posts: 487
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whats the isp?

can u try this test? http://www.dslreports.com/linequality

(sign up at the top top top right)

turn off any firewall while it tests you (you need to be pingable)
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senshi
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UK - NTL

Bill Gates has an intrest share in them, NTL are Dutch Telecom who bought out a company in this area called Diamond Cable, who I believe went bankrupt.
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olly86
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Joined: 25 Apr 2003
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Location: Wiltshire, UK

PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm on NTL with the 750kbps package; my upload speed has remained the same at 128kbps. incase you're wondering I'm connected through the Oxford link.
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senshi
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have asked in other fourms, IT may be NTL is being a cheap bunch of wotsits. The person who I was in dialogue with recons that the service is a contended service and not subscribed as NTL will have you think.

Contended service basically means that it will get slower the more users on the LAN because they are all competing for bandwidth, something NTL are not banking on happening too often, antoher cheap way of restricting your bandwidths, they still charge you for it though.

Tests, little point in repeating them a third time around just yet, give it a couple of days. they were not that much different, 62.3kbps was the maximum upstream.
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senshi
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Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

2004-09-24 18:23:20 EST: 697 / 105
Your download speed : 713883 bps, or 697 kbps.
A 87.1 KB/sec transfer rate.
Your upload speed : 107782 bps, or 105 kbps.
===================================


2004-09-24 18:24:52 EST: 698 / 105
Your download speed : 714775 bps, or 698 kbps.
A 87.2 KB/sec transfer rate.
Your upload speed : 107846 bps, or 105 kbps.
===========================================


Test Status Resultaat
Download
Download van een bestand (128KB ~ 1MB afhankelijk van uw verbinding) vanaf een server in Nederland Klaar 83.5 KByte/sec
(=668 kbps)
Upload
Upload van gegenereerde gegevens naar een server in Nederland om de upload snelheid te bepalen Klaar 12.1 KByte/sec
(=97 kbps)
Connection
Veelvuldig maken van een connectie naar een server in Nederland. Klaar 440.0 Conn/min
Ping test Nederland
Uitvoeren van een aantal grote pings vanuit Nederland naar uw computer (N.B. Uw evt. firewall moet deze pings dus wel accepteren! De test is ook niet mogelijk als u via een proxy server de site gebruikt) Klaar 11.0 ms

=====================================


Direction
Actual Speed
True Speed (estimated)

Downstream 695 Kbps (86.9 KB/sec) 750 Kbps (inc. overheads)
Upstream 108 Kbps (13.5 KB/sec) 116 Kbps (inc. overheads)





Its a small improvement but still far short of the upstream limit I was getting before all these network upgrades were done.
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Foxified
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2004 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

consider moving to a diff isp?
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senshi
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2004 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would if I could, were stuck with BT or NTL, AOL will take the line on over my dead body and they are also happy to charge me £25 for a 64kbps phone service, defeating the object yet again because the phone line cost £10 a month anyway. BT are £17.99 for a dialup.

All in all, IM cheaper where I am until another network provider moves into the area that can provide an alternat cable connect, I did consider SKY but found out that you have to have a phone line.

Tiscalli I wont touch with a barge pole like AOL and any of the other internet providers that spam you or restrict your service as much as they do, shouldnt be called ISP's.
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senshi
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2004 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

olly86 wrote:
I'm on NTL with the 750kbps package; my upload speed has remained the same at 128kbps. incase you're wondering I'm connected through the Oxford link.


Ta.

So from your post, it would appear that here in Nottingham, things are not all they appear to be.

What I get fed up with is NTL's petty penny pinching when US the customer has paid for that bandwidth, I seriously feel a complaint to the industry omberdsmane to deal with this issue because you cant ignor the fact that IM not getrting anywhere near what I was getting before the network changes, before I was a 600 / 400 connect == 1Mbt, which matches the modem type a T1 modem switched to restrict upstream and downstream traffic, what it appears that I have now is an unbalance 750 / 128 k service a 272 kbps short fall on the upstream traffic approx 90-120 kbps total loss when you negate the 150kbps that they have added to downstream.

Anyway, we obviously dont get allot of NTL customers in here then...
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olly86
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2004 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would give it a bit more time before you make a compliant, after all they are performing massive network upgrades at the moment: NTL Service Status

Have you contacted their support, cos if make a complaint, before contacting NTL there are ways them can work there way out of it. By saying they worn't aware of the problem, etc, etc...
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senshi
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2004 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They aint going to get out of this one, IM sick of it, I pay a premium price for the service whcih was sold to me as a subscribed line, you wouldnt expect to rent a phone line and find that you couldnt make calls because someone was already using your phoneline.....

So this time around IM putting in a complaint, IM having trouble finding people who are alos in the same frame of mind as they contact the provider and then the provider NTl get revenue from the phone call you have made as well as fobbing you off telling you the customer that its a problem with the modem.

Enough is enough, IM looking seriously at this and would like to take matters to the next level because its got beyond a joke now. I expect NTL to deny everything as well as pull a few lame excuses and point the finger at me.

Would be a very bad mistake on their part if they did, cant understand why they cant be honest, people respect honesty more than being played for a fool which is what NTL are doing.

NTL use to have a forum board up until the point they got fed up of all the complaints that were posted about intermittent service and other problems, people were having so they stopped the service because it was bad press...

This is an example of how stoopid the help or customer service is, you ring them up and they tell you the information is online, they also want you to run Broadband Medic but I dont because it causes more issues than it solves, the program constantly crashes and eats up system resources, never has helped obnce nor solved a network issue, like I keep telling the Tech department.

So I dont run it, simple as that. I think its a tool with a hidden purpose and cant say for sure what data it sends out but its providing some kind of feed back like a feedback agent!
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rado
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2004 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

senshi - working with people is all-ways dificult thing.
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senshi
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes very difficult, I would say borderline murderous.
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CapFusion
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ISP using a cable base type, this normally is share. I do not know about UK but in US like ComCast or similar, it shared between user. As more user add to the line of that area, the bandwidth get smaller.
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olly86
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

that's how i believe NTL works as well. but as not many people have NTL in my area, they would prefer to stick with dialup (not surprising as NTL just won second place for the worst customer service in the UK!!). my bandwidth is never shared between more than 5 or 6 people.

these systems where never designed for running servers on...
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CapFusion
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It only take one user, like having a Game server to take up your bandwidth for that area.
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Foxified
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Move to canada. What your paying, you can get 4mbit/600k-900k dsl here, or 5mbit cable :]
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CapFusion
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think he is on cable.
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Anonymoose
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know where you ever got the impression from that NTL would have zero contention, even their own site clearly states a contention ratio. The only difference is *where* it is contended. At least it is a better contention ratio that most standard UK ADSL... That said, I'm on 50:1 contended 2Mb/256Kb UK ASDL and still get about 230KB/sec down and 28-30KB/sec up, although not both at the same time due to saturation...

http://www.ntl.com/locales/gb/en/home/broadband/what/same/

Quote:

* Having many users online at the same time will affect download speeds. Whereas ntl:home Broadband Internet guarantees only 20 users can ever use the same portion of the fibre-optic cable at the same time (called a 20:1 contention ratio). ADSL contention ratios can reach 50:1, making maximum data speeds more unlikely.


http://www.ntl.com/mediacentre/company/faqs.asp?section=3

Quote:

Q. I've heard that contention ratios differ between cable and ADSL broadband. Can you explain?
A. Yes. We have engineered our local access network to provide a 20:1 contention ratio in comparison to a number of ADSL providers who have contention ratios as high as 50:1. The "contention ratio" is the number of customers that share one unit of data capacity, meaning the lower the contention ratio the higher the quality of the local access network.


At the end of the day, it's a service you are technically not permitted to run a server on by the T&C you agreed to when signing up. If you're going to take it up with NTL you'd be better off arguing that the poor upstream is affecting your online gaming - even if you don't actually play - than complaining that your servers upstream sucks... The problem that you will run into is that you are supposed to have 128Kb upstream - if you have less than that you can complain, but if you had more to start with you can't really complain that you are now getting what you pay for.

BTW, if you have any fears about Broadband Medic, run it with a personal firewall denying it outgoing access and run a packet sniffer whilst using it to check it's not trying to leak data elsewhere.
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